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AMD Navi
#1
I just thought I would create a thread about Navi because people are saying it's supposed to be coming out in 2018. Actually there is someone on the HardOCP forum saying that Navi is basically Vega 2.0 and it sucks. It's not a new architecture; it's GCN based. Apparently AMD is working on a new architecture built from the ground up, focused on power efficiency, that will come out well after Navi is released as a professional card this July.

AMD seems kind of lost right now which is sad. We will see if they can survive this. My own prediction is that they will focus on the midrange like the did back in the 4870/4850 days. They were quite successful at it then, perhaps they can do it again. We'll find out. At this point I am quite concerned about the long term future of AMD RTG, though.

Who knows if this HardOCP person really has inside information. It sounded logical and plausible enough to me so I'm posting it here. ;)
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#2
(02-08-2018, 08:20 PM)SickBeast Wrote: I just thought I would create a thread about Navi because people are saying it's supposed to be coming out in 2018.  Actually there is someone on the HardOCP forum saying that Navi is basically Vega 2.0 and it sucks.  It's not a new architecture; it's GCN based.  Apparently AMD is working on a new architecture built from the ground up, focused on power efficiency, that will come out well after Navi is released as a professional card this July.

AMD seems kind of lost right now which is sad.  We will see if they can survive this.  My own prediction is that they will focus on the midrange like the did back in the 4870/4850 days.  They were quite successful at it then, perhaps they can do it again.  We'll find out.  At this point I am quite concerned about the long term future of AMD RTG, though.

Who knows if this HardOCP person really has inside information.  It sounded logical and plausible enough to me so I'm posting it here.  ;)

It seems logical that Navi would still be transitional because AMD's GPUs are not ready for an Infinity Fabric complete architectural makeover. Nvidia is still basically using Fermi architecture for Pascal - it's *evolutional* not revolutionary. I don't expect that from Nvidia until Einstein (after Ampere's successor) if my guess as to how their timeline is progressing is close. And AMD is not going to be doing it with Navi which is due in 2019. 2018 might give us a Vega refresh, but I doubt it - certainly a rename is possible with slightly higher clocks for 2018 - if AMD can ever get their supply issues prioritized for gaming.

How would AMD come out with a professional card on new architecture - this July? We are not expecting Navi this year.

Focusing on the midrange is logical. AMD will position the Vega 64 against the GTX 2070 and the Vega 56 against the 2060; they will be midrange then
:D
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#3
All from google translate

https://www.3dcenter.org/news/geruechtek...ge-loesung

Quote:The PC Games hardware brings from the Computex 2018 customer about AMD's next graphics chip generation " Navi ", which compared to the previous rumorsalready comparatively meaningful. The statements noted by the PCGH were not directly referenced with a source, are therefore likely to be based primarily on "blade noise" and are therefore not yet to put on the gold scale. There is good news and bad news: It is good that the anivized launch date is at the end of the first quarter of 2019 - which one does not have to worry anymore that the previous date "2019" could possibly only mean the end of 2019. Even if AMD is a bit late (only too natural in this business), the Navi launch should thus go on stage in the first half of the year. This shortens the window in which AMD is somewhat "naked" towards nVidia's Turing generationstands there - especially if the latter should then come a little later than last hinted .

AMD Navi

Successor to Vega, still part of the GCN architecture
6. GCN generation (GCN6) and thus also last GCN generation
should look after very early roadmaps for "scalability" and "NextGen storage" (according to HBM2)
however, it must break through the limitations of the GCN architecture
7nm production of GlobalFoundries and / or TSMC ( last with tendency to TSMC )
Specifications GlobalFoundries 14LPP to 7LP: -65% chip area to -60% power consumption
technical data TSMC 16FF + to 7FF: -70% chip area to -60% power consumption
earlier mentioned graphics chips : Navi 10 (HighEnd) and Navi 11 (Midrange)
According to the latest rumors, the first is a midrange solution at the end of the first quarter of 2019 (hypothetical: " Radeon RX 680 ")
The same midrange solution should reach the performance level of a GeForce GTX 1170/2070 and relies on GDDR6 memory
Speculatively 4096 shader units on 200-250mm² chip area would be feasible in the 7nm production
Specifically, this makes the performance of a Radeon RX Vega 64 (+ X%) feasible for the power consumption of a Radeon RX 480 (150W)
the whereabouts of the originally planned high-end solution is currently completely unclear
But the bad news is that AMD actually wants to launch the Navi generation with a midrange product - say a hypothetical "Radeon RX 680" card.

http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Vega-Coden...n-1257865/
Quote:AMD has begun to ship graphics cards based on the 7nm Vega GPU. The graphics chip - allegedly Vega 20 - has CEO Lisa Su held for the first time in the cameras. The biggest visual change compared to Vega 10: There are four instead of two HBM2 stacks on the Interposer. For players, however, Vega 7 nm is unlikely to appear.

Just a few weeks ago, AMD announced that the first silicon manufactured in 7 nanometers was running in its internal labs - the new Vega GPU for the HPC market, which is likely to be named Vega 20. As part of Computex , an update followed that first partners should have been supplied with corresponding patterns. The publication is scheduled for the second half of the year. There, AMD also wants to supply its server partners with Zen 2 patterns, which are manufactured like Vega 20 in 7 nm - the initial focus seems to be on Epyc in 2019, until the Ryzen 3000 series appears (the Eypc). CPU in the lead should use Zen-2-Dies).

All this speaks in favor of the manufacturing generation with a structure width of 7 nm. The yield seems to be high enough that the costs can be recouped, at least with higher-priced HPC products. AMD currently buys its 7nm silicon chips from TSMC, and Globalfoundries is scheduled to follow with its ramp later this year.

At the Computex press conference, AMD CEO Lisa Su expressed something unfortunate. Inquiries revealed that Vega 20 will almost certainly not appear for players as a Radeon RX. According to various sources, the topic is not completely off the table, but we would not expect more than a graphics card in the style of the Vega Frontier Editions. With 7 nm production and four HBM2 stacks, a gaming offshoot is likely to be too expensive, even if 4 instead of 8 GiByte modules are used.

As a Radeon RX, AMD will have at least one Navi GPU in 7 nm. As far as PC Games Hardware could hear, the chipmaker plans a release in the late first quarter of 2019, whereby such data are so far in advance quite speculative - in the first half of 2019 seems feasible. As with Polaris, AMD wants to serve the mainstream and leave the high-end segment untouched. The Radeon RX 580 successor, a hypothetical RX 680, should be able to compete with a Geforce GTX 1170 or GTX 2070. In order to be able to raise its price better, AMD renounces the use of HBM2 in the end customer market and would put instead on GDDR6.

A summary in English by Fudzilla
https://www.fudzilla.com/news/graphics/4...h-end-card
Quote:Navi 7nm the 2019 chip will not be a high end GPU, it will be a quite powerful performance/mainstream chip.

Think of it as the Radeon RX 580 / 480 replacement. It will be small, and is likely to perform as well as the Vega 14nm that shipped last year. In the Nvidia performance world Navi should perform close to Geforce GTX 1080 which is quite good for the mainstream part but probably on part of the mainstream part planned after the high end part.

Fudzilla has already reported that Vega 7nm is not a Gaming GPU. This might cause some confusion as there are two different abbreviations floating around. GPU as in General Purpose Unit, or GPU as a graphics processing unit. What we meant by saying Vega 7nm is not a GPU, we want to make crystal clear that Vega 7nm will not be a gaming part.

Navi 7nm won’t have two different SKUs, one that miraculously goes after the Geforce Turing edition planned for later this year. So, the long story short, AMD won’t have anything in the high-end space faster than Vega between now and end of 2019.
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#4
With luck, AMD just might be able to match current GTX 1080 Ti performance with 7nm Navi in 2019. That would make a very decent midrange card at the right price. I hope they can pull it off. Thank you for sharing. I have to say there is less "hype" in the message this time around. Hopefully Lisa Su is indeed cleaning things up in that regard.
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#5
(06-09-2018, 03:03 AM)SickBeast Wrote: With luck, AMD just might be able to match current GTX 1080 Ti performance with 7nm Navi in 2019.  That would make a very decent midrange card at the right price.  I hope they can pull it off.  Thank you for sharing.  I have to say there is less "hype" in the message this time around.  Hopefully Lisa Su is indeed cleaning things up in that regard.

For sure. From what I have heard, Chris Hook "resigned" and much of the old boy club that was intact for the AMD graphics marketing division for a decade is now mostly gone.

That is good news ...
:doh:
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#6
While we are thinking about AMD's future with graphics, this is quite interesting about ATi and its relation to AMD ... kind of a history through the rose colored glasses of the writer

http://gfxspeak.com/2018/06/27/location-...y-markham/

Of course, it is full of BS and PR .. How the truth changes over time ...

Angel
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#7
It's cool that they left the ati division here in Canada intact. There was always a lot of pride about them here. I was sad to see them sold. Matrox was cool back in the day also. One bad product did them in, unfortunately.
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#8
It appears that nothing new is coming from RTG until after February, 2019 according to ASRock's roadmap with no mention of 600 series. If they are still reworking Vega and Polaris, we won't see Navi for a long time
. . . Poor Navi

Cry

https://www.xfastest.com/thread-220945-1-1.html
(use google translate)

Quote:Phantom Gaming is based on the AMD Radeon RX series of graphics cards, and is expected to introduce RX 580 MK2, RX 570 MK2 fan updates in the future, and has high-end RX Vega 56, 64 and other products. In the near future, Phantom Gaming cards will be available in the Taiwan market.
.
[Image: ASRock-Radeon-500-Series-2.jpg]
[Image: XFastest-taipei-meet-2018-36.jpg]
[Image: XFastest-taipei-meet-2018-37.jpg]
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#9
So are they not node shrinking Polaris and Vega? They're just rebranding them? AMD is screwed if that's all they will have for 2019.
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#10
(07-10-2018, 02:39 AM)SickBeast Wrote: So are they not node shrinking Polaris and Vega?  They're just rebranding them?  AMD is screwed if that's all they will have for 2019.

It sure looks like. Letsee, it would be a third rebrand for Polaris, RX 4x0, RX 5x0, and then RX 6x0. I am sure they will tweak the clocks up a bit ...

AMD is aiming for the workstation market. It looks like they are node-shrinking Vega with an announcement at SIGGRAPH coming up. The issue with Vega is that HBM2 is too expensive for the desktop, and it would cost them a fortune to make a GDDR6 controller.
Thinking

Wait for Navi
:wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait: :wait:
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